PETER HOOK of PETER HOOK & THE LIGHT: Dancing With The Angels
An interview by Sarah Kidd.
He is a man that truly needs no introduction. A stalwart of the music world and an icon to boot, Peter Hook has been an integral member of two of the most influential bands in the world, that being Joy Division and of course New Order.
But let’s not forget his work with Revenge, or his partnership with David Potts – Monaco having produced two notable studio albums. And then there is of course the quintessential Freebass; not to mention the fact that Peter Hook just happens to be one hell of a DJ and a take no prisoner’s writer either.
He is an undeniable goliath, and while age and sobriety may have smoothed his edges over the last few years, the sharp wit remains. I find Hook – ‘Hooky’ to his fans – getting lost within the confines of an airport when I call;
Hi Peter…
“Hello – let’s just see where I am. I’m lost. I’m trying to find me way out of here … ah I see. Yeah I’m getting lost in the airport.”
Safely to a more appropriate interview spot, and one disconnected call later;
“… that quiet corner of yours didn’t quite work”
Oh I know! We got cut off somehow … I think it’s you (laughs)
“You know the strangest thing is, is if I try to call my wife half a mile away the phone never works, but you lot always seem to manage to get through which is absolutely beyond me” (laughs)
… and we are ready to begin.
The story goes that after seeing a performance by the Sex Pistols you bought a guitar the very next day…
“Yes it was. I walked in a fan and came out a musician.”
Funnily enough Glen Matlock will be touring here shortly as well.
“I was with Glen Matlock last week actually, we did a gig together! “
So what was it about their [The Sex Pistols] performance that spoke to you?
“What was it? It was because – to be honest with you they were absolutely shit, they sounded horrible – the thought was that I could do it after watching them. Which was insane because if you actually listen to a bootleg of the night, they actually played very well; I think it was just the sound on the night was awful.
The fact that Johnny Rotten kept telling us all to fuck off was very inspiring, and I thought to myself ‘You know what, I could do that for a living and tell everyone to fuck off as well’”
So what was it in particular about the bass guitar that made you want to take it up?
“I didn’t know what a bass guitar was you know, Bernard [Sumner] told me to go and get a bass guitar and I cracked on that I knew what it was … I didn’t … and when I went to the shop I actually asked for a guitar! The guy said to me ‘What kind of guitar do you want’ and I went ‘Oh a bass guitar’ and he went ‘Oh here’s one’ and I went ‘Fine that’ll do’ and took it!
I remember getting to the practice place – which was actually Bernards Grandmothers house – and I realised my guitar had less strings then his guitar and that was when I learnt the difference between the bass guitar and a normal guitar (mutual laughter) … I didn’t have a clue about the instrument!”
And yet you made it your own – if you look at any list of the greatest bass players in the world you are on it!
“Yeah I am, and I must admit you know it’s a great compliment, and as my wife said to me ‘Everything I decide to do I always do to the enth degree’ (laughs) So bass guitar just fitted in well along with gardening, DJing, writing books, hopefully being a husband and a father; I do it to the best of my ability.”
I am sure being a husband is up there as well, I don’t know if they do Top 10 lists mind you …
(mutual laughter)
Now before we talk about the upcoming tour I have an interesting fan question for you – what ever happened to Ian Curtis’s white teardrop guitar that he played in the ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ video?
“The teardrop guitar? My best friend Twinny was our roadie and he fell out with our manager; he had taken that guitar to be fixed and instead he sold it to get his money back that Rob Gretton owed him. So he sold that Vox Phantom teardrop guitar as owned by Ian Curtis for one hundred and fifty dollars …”
Oh fuck
“… and it has never been seen since, which is weird. No one has ever, ever come up with it, so god knows where it is!”
I think I want to cry …
“Well it’s true, it’s true … yeah. He sold it to a music shop in Salford”
I wonder if whoever bought it knows its history…?
“No they don’t. If they knew it would probably be worth one hundred thousand pounds I would have thought … at least!
But Ian Curtis daughter has the other guitar, the white one; we gave her that as a present a long time ago actually. So she has the other Vox guitar, but the teardrop one has never been seen since …”
(sighs) Well thank you for sharing that.
Now with this tour you have obviously got a particular set list; when you play these songs night after night does it ever become tiring? Or is it like dancing with the angels and the demons of history every evening?
(laughs) “That’s a nice way of putting it actually. The interesting thing is that in my career I went through from 1990 to … god 2011 when New Order split up … and I never played any of these songs! If you look at the Joy Division songs like ‘Closer’ we never played that album, we never got the opportunity to play it after Ian’s death; so thirty years having ignored most of our back catalogue!
Luckily for me we actually get to play thirty – forty songs a night and playing so many of them, so many of them still sound so fresh! It’s like getting your new toys back when you were a kid you know? So no, I don’t get fed up with them, I’m just delighted to have the opportunity to play them because New Order and Joy Division were robbed of those songs and New Order just chose – because of them two lazy bastards – never to play any songs! You know we [New Order] played about fourteen over and over again and I must admit I was delighted to see that when they reformed as ‘New Odour’ they did exactly the same thing! Most of your catalogue is ignored, so it’s great to get it – so yeah … I’m dancing with the Angels baby!”
I know it’s a little bit cliché, but ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ is a song that has just lived on – bands still cover it to this day! What is it about this particular song that has kept it alive? Its lyrics, simplicity, the way it speaks to all generations?
“Well, I would like to say it’s the bassist only (raucous laughter) You know ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’ is a very peculiar song actually, cause if you listen to the lyrics it’s a very bitter, hate song; it’s about a relationship that has gone badly wrong and all the ill feeling in that relationship.
Yeah it died a love song because of the positive performance of the tune; you know it’s a really uplifting song that hides the hateful lyrics. Like I would not want that song to have been written about me so I don’t know how his wife (laughs) feels about having that song as her epitaph! It’s a very unusual song, people think the song is quite jolly and yet if you look at the lyrics they are very bitter, very bitter indeed. Maybe it’s that juxtaposition that makes it last, I don’t know. You know the thing is it’s a great tune; great music goes across the ages, goes across the generations. An uplifting song is always an uplifting song – look at Eye of The Tiger!”
(laughs) Great music does indeed transcend the ages. Speaking of great music, yours will leave behind one hell of a legacy; but if you removed that, what is the one thing that you would want people to remember about you?
(laughs) “You know I would like people to think that he was a nice guy … yeah I mean that’s an interesting question isn’t it, because if you are naturally modest like I am it’s very difficult to say! But yeah you want to be thought of as a nice bloke, generous …Christian, good father and a good husband I mean what else could you … oh, and a good son … yeah that’s all I could think of!”
Fair enough – when speaking to a legend like yourself, you have to throw at least one question in there you have not heard a million times before (laughs)
(laughs) “Good question … very good question!”
Obviously you still write and compose your own music, so what influences you, what do you draw from when you write now days?
“Well I mean I do a lot of collaborations these days; I must admit that’s the only thing I miss about the group – you know as in New Order – is the freedom to have people to write with. At the moment I am on my own, so I do collaborations and I have just done a collaboration with Rusty Egan out of the Rich Kids. I did another collaboration with a guy from Kraftwerk, a track called ‘Birmingham’ and I’ve done another collaboration with a French band recently. So I am very busy in that respect, but I could do with getting a group together.
I must admit that myself and the guitarist in The Light – who is my partner from Monaco [David Potts] – we are talking about doing another Monaco album next year, so I am looking forward to that, because my manager, my record company boss Tony Wilson, they always used to say the same thing to me. They always used to say ‘The best song you are ever going to write will be your next one, so get on with it!’ And it’s as simple as that! So I do miss that; and I must admit you journalists it’s one of your first questions you ask which is quite ironic because we don’t make much money from new music. In your career as a musician, writing new music isn’t that important because the only thing that earns you money is the old music! It’s quite a weird juxtaposition actually”
But like all musicians there is that drive, that need to create – so new music is usually often a given …
“Yeah … no, I mean it is a very interesting question; but because of the internet and downloads it’s actually a very complicated question you know? I mean the thing is as a musician … when I sat down to write Unknown Pleasures it took six months from start to finish shall we say and that sold a lot of records. Now it’s mostly downloaded and you don’t earn any money from it.
But if I was to sit down and do a new record now, I would not earn any money from it and you would want it to be the same quality as Unknown Pleasures; so you are devoting the same amount of time, the same amount of your life to it and yet you are getting no reward! It’s an ailment that you journalists suffer from with cut and paste and musicians suffer from for the same reason you know? It’s a really weird strange world! And yet the first question journalists ask, and the first question that fans want to know is ‘When’s your new stuff out? And you’re thinking ‘You know, fucking pay for it you bastards!’ (raucous laughter)
It makes life really difficult, and you know in my career I had the 80’s and 90’s, so we used to sell millions of records and the record company used to take us out for dinner … now you end up taking the record company out for dinner (laughs) they can’t afford it, they’re the ones with no money! You wonder where all that money went!”
We are seeing it right across the board, the music industry has changed and in turn the journalism industry has changed … I miss the days of the album, the tactile feel of having something in your hand …
“Yeah … I miss all those huge parties! (raucous laughter)
That would be an interesting book wouldn’t it? Record Company parties I went to in the 80’s and 90’s …”
It would indeed!
One more for you; which song from your current touring set list best represents each band?
“I think for Joy Division it would be ‘Atmosphere’, because I think it sums up our power, our subtlety and our simplicity; it ended up being the song most played at funerals in England! ‘Atmosphere’ by Joy Division! It’s a weird accolade that init? I’ve told the band, play it at my funeral.
For New Order my favourite song is “Thieves Like Us’ actually because I think it is a far superior single to ‘Blue Monday’ and it’s got a great bass line that I still love – Hot Chocolate ‘Emma’ [Hook stole the bass line from the 1974 track] – so yeah that’s my favourite for that one.”
Peter Hook & The Light perform a one off show this week at Auckland’s Studio, performing both Joy Division’s and New Order’s ‘Substance’ albums in full. Tickets are still available from Metropolis Touring, but get in quick as they are selling fast!
