ALEX CAMERON: The Empathy Threshold
An interview by Sarah Kidd.
Alex Cameron has a story to tell, a message that needs to be given and passed on and on til the content of said message starts to get though. His debut album entitled Jumping the Shark was a “high-concept” act which saw him adopt the “persona of a failed entertainer”.
He has collaborated with artists such as Angel Olsen and Brandon Flowers [The Killers] as well as toured with Mac DeMarco and Unknown Mortal Orchestra; his live performances often noted for the appearance of his “business partner” and rather talented saxophonist Roy Molloy.
Now with his second album Forced Witness, Cameron is back, bigger than ever, his only hope, to start conversations and see changes occur where changes are needed… I spoke with Cameron recently to discuss some of the themes behind the tracks of his latest offering.
Your new album Forced Witness, I’m quite fascinated by the title. Is it in reference to us the audience being the forced witness to the subject matter you are presenting?
“Somewhat. The title for me is so effective because I think that there is a certain – I was taught about an empathy threshold that humans have, that we all have – and when you are trying to figure out a correct solution for a situation each of us has an empathy threshold. And so I suppose it is about exposure, it’s about tolerance, it’s about our ability to react to the situations where we should be shocked but we have supposedly been desensitized by that exposure to a trauma or a tragedy.”
So many of the characters featured in the albums tracks are part of the multi-faceted layers that make up toxic masculinity. What prompted you to create these?
“I suppose I just kept seeing it. I just kept seeing it and I wrote about what I was seeing. I don’t know if it’s much more complex than that; I write stories and I write about characters and I write about what I see. It was those things combined that became a record.”
And obviously toxic masculinity is something that you see a lot of, is that in the music industry or in everyday life as well?
“It’s everyday life for sure; it’s more everyday life than it is music industry.”
I particularly enjoy the juxtaposition of some of your songs; you have the upbeat synth pop taste to them with the bitterness of the subject matter just underneath. Is that a deliberate move on your part to draw the listener in?
“It is yeah. I kinda feel like in order for me as a writer to be able to write songs that are melodically really quite … I suppose infectious, I just feel as though it gives me lighter facts as to use these sort of euphoric moments musically whilst staying true to the character. Because it’s like ammunition … yeah it is … it’s like part of the cavalry. Yeah I do feel like, it’s almost like a Trojan Horse.”
It’s like the Joy Division track ‘Love Will Tear Us Apart’, everyone finds it a very upbeat song, but if you listen to the lyrics its coming from someone who was very angry and hurt at the time.
“Yeah, I’ve enjoyed songs that … where the message of the song takes a few listens to really come across. I just like layered songs. It is like unpacking something every time and then realizing that it’s like any good story for me, it’s something that can be read and re-read and the message can develop over time.”
I would like to ask about the track ‘Runnin Outta Luck’, should it be viewed as a glimmer of hope or another form of the male ego, where only a man can save a woman’s soul?
“I think that’s an interesting question. I think it was in writing that song there were a few different directions that we could have gone and we decided to stick with the narrative that from a male’s perspective he may have been a bit delusional because the sense and hook of that song is about the male character at the end of the day; that even though he is egotistical and he believes he is doing the right thing he’s still relying on the bad luck of other people around him to be successful so in order to be a hero. So I think there is absolutely something to that perspective. There is a lot in that song that is about the male delusion.”
On ‘Stranger’s Kiss’ you perform a duet with Angel Olsen who is an absolutely astounding performer. How did you end up in this collaboration?
“We met on a Laneway tour about two, three years ago; we actually became pen pals and she would send me demo’s and I would send her lyrics and things … we would just swap our ideas. And eventually, I was in the studio and I had a song which I felt was something that we could both sing on and she liked the idea. That song had to be a dialogue; I wanted it to be a dialogue between two people because I just felt it was so much more emotionally powerful if it could be two people talking to one another. We happened to be in LA at the same time recording our albums and she had a night to come over to the studio and it just sort of went from there.”
It’s beautiful to actually have this dialogue between the two of you as it is quite lovely to have a female’s voice come through on an album that is very centered around the masculine form and emotions; it lifts the song out of the grime that you get from the other characters…
“Sure, and I appreciate you saying that because there were a lot of women who worked on the record but it was very important for me to include Angel because she has been very important to me in my personal life as well as a musician and a writer. And so it just felt like the right moment … even through the whole record … to have this sort of powerful voice. Angel comes through with this powerful but at the same time human side and I think for me is part of the records message.”
If I may I would like to address a somewhat sensitive subject. After your first album you did have a breakdown; do you feel that after this album you have exorcised some demons in some way?
“Hmmm, I don’t know, you know like part of recovering from that kind of thing is realizing … its part of your life now. When you are dealing with mental illness and mental health I think one of the big learning curves is, it’s not the kind of thing that you necessarily defeat, it’s the kind of thing that you try and live with and cope with and learn about. For me it’s about education and I think this record instead of exorcising or denying or trying to seek, it’s more of an education … for me.
This is a process of learning and these are the things that I have learned, and these are the things that I have deemed to be confronted and so that’s definitely part of the process, absolutely.”
I applaud you for doing it as it is certainly a topic that needs to be addressed and to actually include that in your art is quite brave.
What are your thoughts on the #metoo campaign?
“I think as a man to see that happen, to see women using a communal way of broadcasting their message, it’s strong; I’m sort of in awe of that. It needs to happen I think from my perspective, you know I was raised with equality and fairness; it’s ingrained in my DNA. So I think that the sooner that woman can achieve in every facet of society, safety and equality and eventually, hopefully satisfaction, then I think that the world will be a better place. Yeah I think it needs to happen and men need to be one hundred percent pulled into line and held accountable because that’s the way forward for us.”
‘Politics of Love’ the last song of the album, could you please speak about this for me, as this is quite an interesting track.
“It’s kinda like my mission statement you know, I wanted to put a song at the end of the record that kind of rounds it off; despite all the bleakness of the record and despite the overpowering nature of the way that society is, I just wanted to put out a message about love and a message about the way that I would like things to be. I think there is a truth to it, you know it’s like it doesn’t matter who you are or what you represent; at the end of the day governments and media and even the power dynamics of society can’t stop pure love.
For me I wanted to write about how humans like to meddle – in having restrictions and rules – but at the end of the day it’s all quite unbridled what we are doing out here.”
Are you expecting a backlash from this album or are you hoping it will start conversations?
“I don’t know, certainly when you are dealing with the subject matter you expect people to be affected by it you know and I think backlash is a funny word because it kind of implies that the reaction is negative. Even if people wanted to discuss the record’s content and find problems with it you know that’s totally fine with me you know I am open to discussion, I am open to talk to people about it, I’m open to other people talking about it amongst themselves and forming an opinion about it.
Backlash to me feels like, I mean it’s a word we use so often, this record is not about my image, it’s about the record, and it’s an important story to me. So yeah I’m comfortable with people talking about it, forming opinions and ultimately I hope that I can learn from it as well.”
Alex Cameron (with Roy Molloy) is hitting New Zealand for a show in Auckland (15th February 2018) and a show in Wellington (16th February 2018). Tickets to both shows are still available, but get in quick as they are sure to sell out!
