RICHARD SHAW of CRADLE OF FILTH: The Gateway To Happiness.
An interview by Sarah Kidd.
It has been a very long wait for New Zealand fans, but after twenty-eight years of existence, Cradle of Filth will finally perform on our very own hallowed grounds.
Declared the most successful British metal group since Iron Maiden, Cradle of Filth – led by the one and only Dani Filth, founding member and visionary – have long been unleashing their unique gothic metal sound on the masses. From their debut album The Principle of Evil Made Flesh in 1994 through to such beloved and iconic releases as Dusk…and Her Embrace, Nymphetamine and their latest work Cryptoriana – The Seductiveness of Decay, Cradle of Filth have continuously strived to bring their macabre creations to life on both their albums and the stage.
Even more exciting is the fact that Cradle of Filth will be performing their 1998 oeuvre, Cruelty and the Beast in full; a concept album exploring the legend of the Countess Elizabeth Báthory it is an undoubted favourite among fans.
I recently spoke with guitarist Richard Shaw about the upcoming show, his career to date with Cradle of Filth and just what it’s like working with Dani Filth…
You yourself Richard joined Cradle of Filth in 2014, going on to write and record on the last two albums, Hammer of the Witches and Cryptoriana – The Seductiveness of Decay respectively… But how did it come about that you ended up in Cradle of Filth in the first place?
“It’s a weird story; I actually had just performed a gig with another band that I was in and I got back about two o’clock in the morning and I got a call from a friend of mine who is actually Cradle of Filth’s sound guy. He called me up going ‘Uh, you can’t tell anyone but basically Paul [Allender – guitarist] is sitting out the tour’ and I was like ‘When’s the tour happening?’ and he was like ‘In February’.
It was late December when I got the call and they said the tour was actually starting in three weeks lasting the whole of February; it was a European tour – and he was like ‘Do you mind if I put your name forward to do an audition? They just need someone to come in and finish the tour because Paul can’t do it.’ I still to this day don’t know why he couldn’t do it but…
So, I was asked if I could audition and I was like ‘Wow, OK, this is pretty crazy, this will be the biggest thing I have ever done’ but I was like ‘Right, OK, I’m gonna go for the audition and see what happens. And when I don’t get the job at least I can say I tried out’, you know what I mean? I was sort of pessimistic about the whole thing, going ‘Well I don’t know if they’re going to want a guitarist like me’, because I wasn’t really known for doing the whole extreme heavy metal thing. And then all of a sudden, I did the audition and got the job! I sent a video audition off to Martin [Škaroupka] our drummer and apparently I was the only person who handed my audition tape in on time.”
[laughs] Oh my god…really?
“I think I got the position out of default and I still to this day think that’s the only reason I got the job, that and because I was the cheapest option because I was from England…”
[laughs]
[laughs] “So I think, that was the reason I joined the band. But I have been told that it’s not. [laughs] Apparently quite a few people were approached, from the band and crews recommendations. But I was the only person who handed the audition tape in on time and they were happy with my playing and my look and that’s kinda what went on.
I got a call – well an email – from Dani [Filth] saying ‘Right, cool, we want you to do the tour. You’ve got pretty much four weeks to hear the songs and learn them and we’ll see you at the start of February for a couple of days rehearsals and then that’s it, you’re on tour’.
Again, the biggest thing I had ever done and I was thrown in at the deep end! I was like ‘Well, I’m not going to waste this opportunity, I’m gonna do it to the nth degree’ And then they asked me to join the band after that tour – as it was very clear that Paul wasn’t going to come back. They were like ‘Do you write songs?’ and I was like ‘Yes, I write songs’ and they were like ‘Cool, start writing the next album.’”
[laughs]
“And that’s how I got the job, it was literally like that. So, it was a bit of a whirlwind! About six weeks from learning the songs to going on tour, to becoming an official member of the band. It was a very whirlwind experience. But very, very cool. I wouldn’t change it for the world.”
Yes! Very cool, very cool indeed. I had the opportunity of interviewing Dani when Cryptoriana first came out and he is a very intelligent man, so it must be quite a pleasure really working with him?
“Oh, it really is! Like you say, he is a very intelligent guy, very knowledgeable about not only heavy metal – he’s got this encyclopaedic knowledge about every heavy metal band under the sun. No matter how obscure, he will be like ‘Oh yeah, I’ve got their demo tape’ people will be like ‘What the hell, how do you …’ and he’ll quote the track listing off it, its crazy! – but also film music as well. He loves film music. Nine times out of ten backstage you can hear it coming out of his dressing room. And it’s marrying the two things; so, when we write …he doesn’t play an instrument but he’s very hands on with the arrangement side of things.
He knows what he likes to hear, and he’s like ‘Yeah, and it feels like this should go to this kind of area, we’ve been hanging around this idea for a while, let’s go into something else that’s loosely based off…’ and he’ll pull from his knowledge of all these bands and film music ‘How about something like this! How about something like the Dracula soundtrack? How about something like Testament’ So even when we just write he’s very hands on and he’s very good at it – like you say an intelligent man – but also very eloquent, he can convey what he wants very easily and we’re like ‘Cool, not a problem we can come up with that!’
At the same time, I think a lot of people think he’s almost like a dictator and it’s far from it. It’s very much a collaborative effort. I sent over some ideas the other day and he got very excited about it, it kickstarted some lyrical ideas for him. So it’s very collaborative when we write, but it’s good working with Dani in the sense that he knows what the song needs. I trust him and Martin our drummer, they steer the ship a little bit and rightly so because it’s Dani’s baby, he’s been doing it for the last … well, it’s been twenty-five years since the first album came out…”
It has been indeed…
“…so, when it comes to what the song needs, I’m gonna trust him [chuckles] He knows what a Cradle song sound is and what Cradle fans like and what he wants in a song so that it’s not the same old, same old for him. It’s not like we go with what he says, if we strongly disagree, we will say. But yeah it tends to be Martin and Dani steering the ship but with all of us writing and a very, very collaborative thing.”
Yes, Dani and I had a great conversation about our favourite film composers. When it comes music – not only were you a session guitarist but also a lecturer at the Academy of Contemporary Music – do you still lecture there in Birmingham?
“Well I still do little bits here and there. Because the touring schedule became so crazy, I kind of stepped down from going in and actually lecturing, but I am still with the Academy of Music and Sound and the Academy of Contemporary Music because I work with both. I still do a little bit with the online course which is a lot easier because I can do that as I am on tour as well, like one on one Skype sessions with students who need help with any particular thing, or if they need help with just getting into the industry. They will have a project or a certain thing they are working on and they’re basically asking ‘Is it up to industry standards’ so that’s kinda of where I help out with now, and less on the actual teaching the guitar course side of things.
But I’m still teaching privately and I’m doing master classes for the rest of the year. So, I’m still very hands on in the kind of session musician and educational side between Cradle of Filth commitments.”
With that sort of background, do you believe that you bring something different to the table when it comes to writing and composing music?
“I would like to think so, because as much as I’m a heavy metal fan, I was never really into the extreme metal side of things until I was put in the deep end with Cradle. I was kind of a casual Cradle of Filth fan – my brother is a diehard fan, so he freaked out more than I did when I got the call that I had got the job! Cause pretty much the heaviest thing that I was into at the time was like Slipknot and they’re obviously very commercial. So, I was like more on the commercial side of extreme metal if that makes sense.
But I was listening to all kinds of different songs and music, as do the rest of the members of Cradle of Filth. There was this one song ‘Heartbreak and Séance’ off the last album that came about from me trying to play this country guitar line and I completely balls-ed it up. So, I ended up tweaking a few notes here and there and going ‘Actually, now I can turn this into a Cradle of Filth song!’ So it’s kind of weird where the inspiration can come from, but music is music at the end of the day and although it sounds corny, if there was only good and bad music you would listen to the music that excites you and leave everything else behind. Don’t feel the need to slag it off, just don’t listen to it if you don’t like it; that’s the way I see it!”
Yes, absolutely agree…
“I’m always listening out for things, like I’ll watch a film and there’ll be just a little melody or something like the instrumentation that evokes a certain feeling and you’ll go ‘Well I wonder if I can do that on the guitar?’ and bring that to Cradle; that’s kind of how it works with our writing chemistry. We’re all into different styles of music and we go ‘Well …let’s see what happens if…’
I mean if we were all listening to black metal all the time we’d just end up with … identical sounding albums every time we come out. I’d like to think that we mix up the formula a little bit on every album.”
Yes, most definitely. And I completely agree with your sentiment; music is such an important part of our lives; if something brings you joy, then listen to whatever it is that makes you feel like that, listen to what brings you happiness!
“Exactly. That’s why I find it really funny, even conversations I have with friends, where some people get on the high horse and go ‘Ah no, you can’t listen to this band – why don’t you listen to this band because they’re more’ …authentic or true, or cult or whatever label you want to put on it. It’s like ‘Well, that band bores me, or I don’t think the songs are as good, or they’re not a good live band …’ But you know whatever it is, you like what you like, I’ll like what I like – and boom, we’re all fans of music.
I think that’s a side of me that comes from being a guitar teacher as well, like way before I joined Cradle I would be teaching Ed Sheeran and Taylor Swift songs and then I’d go on tour and people are like ‘What the hell? Why don’t you show your students other stuff?’ And it’s like ‘Look, I’m going to show my students whatever gets them excited’ I’m just grateful that there are kids still picking up guitars! And then they find that many of them are sort of gateway bands; Slipknot was the gateway band for me being into heavier styles of music, like I was always into Metallica and stuff and then someone put me onto Slipknot and I was like ‘Woah – a blast beat! What is a blast beat?’ things like that.
So, you’ve got to have those gateway bands that keep people playing and discovering music and they will discover the authentic, good stuff on their own. You don’t have to force it down and tell them they’re not a real music fan because they don’t listen to the same music as you. I think that’s – I’m not going to swear – but [chuckles] I think that’s a really arrogant way of looking at any kind of art. Just whatever excites you, excites you and that’s it!”
Agreed, and sadly that is something that does happen a lot in the metal scene I find, where the elitists will declare what is true death, or black or prog metal and so on and so forth…
And yes, to gateway bands! Mine was Guns N Roses, before that I was a NKOTB fan which is quite embarrassing to admit [laughs]. And then from Guns N Roses I made the jump into Deicide and so forth, so I went straight for the deep end…
“I think there’s a way to get into every band, and that’s why I love talking music with people; because I was listening to all kinds of crazy stuff when I was a kid, like rockabilly with my grandparents, pop music in the 90’s and stuff like that. It’s very telling at the time when you start talking pop music with people … ‘Ah, I know exactly how old you are now!’”
[mutual laughter]
“It’s like everyone at different ages seems to think what makes good pop music is pretty much what they grew up with, and nobody seems to love the modern stuff apart from the little kids I teach. [chuckles] It’s a funny old game, talking music, but I love it. I find it fascinating.”
With this Australasian tour, Cradle of Filth will of course be playing the Cruelty and the Beast album in its entirety. Obviously with joining the band in 2014 you’ve been with them for five years, but this is a band with a history of almost thirty…
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You would have already learnt a wide range of songs from across Cradles discography. But how do you approach something like this tour where you must learn an entire album in full?
“We were quite lucky in the sense that when I first joined the band we would play three songs from Cruelty on that first tour that I did. And every now and again we’ll like cherry pick one of those three songs and then on another tour we’ll be like ‘How about we try this song?’
I mean we’re always talking about set lists. We don’t want to repeat ourselves too much and we’re always thinking tour to tour, it’s always a drastically different set. So, over the years we’ve played quite a lot of Cruelty tracks and so it turned out that we only needed to learn like four more songs.
But they were a challenge, because it turned out that there’s a reason why they have not been performed live before, because they’re really difficult…”
Ah…
[chuckles] “Yeah, everybody needed to be one hundred percent on those songs as they can be very, very difficult. But I think we’re lucky, because we’ve got a very strong line-up that rose to the challenge, and it was a lot of fun to learn. I know I didn’t write the songs but as a fan when I was thirteen years old – when Cruelty and the Beast came out – the first time I really heard that kind of music alongside Slipknot’s first album like a year later, I was like ‘Woah, this is a bit much for me, I don’t understand it’ and so weirdly enough I get a bit of nostalgia listening to that album in its entirety. My brother was always playing it really loud in his room, and I would be like ‘What the hell is this?’”
[laughs]
“So, I go back to those kind of times, when I think about it. But I wonder how Dani feels being the guy who wrote and recorded those songs? I wonder how he feels performing them every night? We see it as a challenge, but I don’t know if Dani sees it as an absolute …pain”
[mutual laughter]
“This is some difficult stuff for him to do, but it really upped his game as well so it’s certainly exciting to play and there is definitely not a dull moment playing it.”
You can’t mention the last two albums, as obviously you have had your hand in them, but out of the massive discography that Cradle of Filth have, what would be your favourite album?
“That’s tough!”
[chuckles]
“Cruelty is definitely up there, Cruelty is up there because it’s almost like after learning the songs, I have a brand-new appreciation for the album. I did like the album, I grew to like the album as I was growing up. Like when I was thirteen, as I was saying it was a bit too much for me, but when I re-discovered it again when I was fifteen-sixteen I was like “I get it now!’ so of course it is up there.
Midian [2000] was around the time when Cradle were on my radar a lot more, and I really like Dusk, Dusk… and her Embrace [1996] that’s definitely up there as well…”
Yes, that’s certainly one of my favourites…
“I think Godspeed on the Devil’s Thunder [2008] is an incredibly underrated album, I loved that when it came out and I kinda re-discovered Cradle again with that album. I think there’s a Cradle album for everybody and it’s amazing when you start talking with people about what’s their favourite album, like even with Cradle of Filth fans and how heated and defensive they get, but at the same time they’re so passionate; ‘No, this album is definitely the best!’ and you hear the reasons for it and it’s amazing what people love about each one.
It puts a lot of pressure on us moving forward because you go ‘Right, so I’m really [chuckles] scared about what we do with every album’. With the last two albums, it was like ‘Oh my god, I hope the fans like it because I know the fans that don’t like it are going to be very vocal about it’ [laughs] But again that is brilliant that people are so passionate; as long as they’re talking about it and coming to the shows then …long live heavy metal! As corny as that sounds.”
Well speaking of shows, you are playing in New Zealand and I know one of your favourite things as part of your career is to play live; but I’m not sure you’re quite ready for a sold out New Zealand crowd who have been waiting for almost thirty years for Cradle of Filth to come here and play!
“Yeah, I’ve been told that by some of my friends who live in New Zealand; they’re like ‘I don’t think you realise how heated they’re getting and how pumped they are for the show’. And obviously we’ve had sold out shows before and we’ve played some places that we haven’t played in a very long time, or never before; but I have been told very amazing things about New Zealand crowds from a lot of friends who are in bands. They’re like ‘Have you been to New Zealand yet?’ and we’re like ‘No’ and they’re like ‘WOAH, you wait!’
So, there’s definitely a buzz around it, we’re getting very excited!”
Yes, well we all thought with the last tour when Cradle of Filth were in Australia that you guys would finally make it across the ditch to see us, but alas it didn’t quite pan out that way. So the announcement of this year’s Auckland show really was huge!
“Yeah, we thought we were going to do it as well when we did Australia last year, but it just never seemed to happen. The scheduling of an entire world tour is an incredibly difficult thing to do. You just – unfortunately – have to say ‘No’ to some places, which we never want to do; if it were up to us we would play everywhere, all the time [chuckles] but you can’t physically do that so you have to disappoint some people, at some point as much as you don’t like to. But I like to think that we’re going to make up for it on September 12th!”
Yes! I just know you guys will. So, before we go, have you got any message for your New Zealand fans who are all very much looking forward to seeing you?
“Hold on tight, because we’re chomping at the bit! We can’t wait, we’ve heard amazing things about New Zealand and with the added excitement of knowing it’s a sold-out show, it’s going to be crazy!
It’s been a long time and we know it’s been a long time, so …get ready!”
Cradle Of Filth will be performing a one-off show tonight (Thursday 12th September 2019) at Auckland’s Studio, The Venue. Tickets are now sold out.
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